Heard the bad news? Word on the street is that Fat Package passed away in a Suzhou bar last month. We never really moved in the same circles as the guy, but if true we'll miss his presence in town. Even while we were hustling to make ends meet downtown, it was somehow comforting to know Fat was enjoying the Shunyi lifestyle. And with his place just a quick heiche from the Lido hotel who could be faulted for wondering what it might take for them to get a taste of the expat lifestyle too?Curious where your "fat expat package" has gone? This week on Sinica, Kaiser Kuo and Jeremy Goldkorn welcome Will Moss of Imagethief and David Wolf of Wolf Group Asia for a dissection of the expat job market: what sort of jobs are available in China these days and what it takes to get on what we lovingly call the FEP. We put everything on the table this week, including some numbers that will either impress or horrify you. And for good measure, we also look at Sina Weibo's slap-on-the-wrist for its involvement spreading coup rumors two weeks ago, a retaliatory strike that turned China's biggest social network into a marginally better version of Twitter for a horrifying three days.Trying to keep up-to-date on China? Sinica is a regular podcast covering the lastest chit worth chatting about on the China scene. If you like the show, remember that you can subscribe manually in iTunes by selecting "Subscribe to Podcast" from your "Advanced" file menu and providing the URL http://popupchinese.com/feeds/custom/sinica when prompted. We also encourage listeners to download this episode as a standalone mp3 file directly from our site.
Sinica
said on April 6, 2012
Links and recommendations from today's show: first up are "Asia's Endangered Species" from the Wall Street Journal, the editorial "Go East Young Man" from the New York Times, and Gady Epstein's "Anatomy of a Coup" for the Economist.Recommendations this week included Will's pointer to this article about purchasing press coverage in China, David's mention of his coming book "Making the Connection" which is coming out on Amazon next week. Jeremy recommends the blog "Long Haul China" by Fulbright scholar Rachel Katz, while Kaiser points us to Evan Osnos' "God of Gamblers" in the New Yorker, and the China blog "Blood and Treasure" by Jamie K.
华金
said on April 6, 2012
Once again, great podcast. I'm actually living in 贵州 (遵义) at the moment but will be moving to Kunming in August to study Chinese and am contemplating my options. Teaching English is the easy option, though not most the fulfilling one, and I've already done it for long enough. The dream would be writing for an expat magazine! It would be interesting to know how the other China-based 泡泡中文 users are earning their bread and butter...
oodydoodles
said on April 6, 2012
Very interesting discussion! Highlights the importance of remaining flexible in these changing times. Looking forward to the next podcast!
trevelyan
said on April 6, 2012
Bittersweet to hear David Wolf talk about real expat packages, because I think most people in my generation (late 20s and early 30s) now use the term to mean a job which pays anything comparable to what one can earn abroad. A lot of people are in China because they love the country or the people, not because it makes economic sense in terms of career choice. Put another way, I've actually heard friends refer unironically to 60k all-in pre-tax "expat" packages.That said, I'd also strongly disagree with advising newcomers to move to a third tier city in order to have an edge in some kind of business sense. That feels like romantic path-not-followed advice, but for almost anyone looking for work outside the English-teaching field, Beijing or Shanghai are where those jobs are and where people have their best shot at finding work on the strength of their abilities rather than as a token foreigner. And for people without strong language skills, Shanghai is pretty much the only destination they've got. It is very hard to get a well-paid job in Beijing without conversational Chinese at a minimum. Not a bad thing, but let's be honest about it.All that being said, I think the situation is actually better now than it was three years ago in the sense that there are more better-than-English-teaching jobs around and agree with Jeremy that China is a good place to start a business, as long as it doesn't require either investment or dealing with the Chinese government.
zjv5002
said on April 7, 2012
A fantastic title along the lines of the absurd "Go East" op-ed. http://www.amazon.com/Struggling-Move-China-David-Williams/dp/product-description/7119050877Notice how they copped the "Obama 08" design for extra hope.
pieter.vansloten
said on April 9, 2012
Haha, I'm looking forward to hearing this man as your next guest on Sinica:"About the AuthorDavid Williams grew up in Missoula, Montana, U.S.A., went to college in Seattle, Washington, and worked for 7 years in Los Angeles, California [...] In the spring of 2006, he moved to Beijing with 750 dollars, and a lot of hope. He had no connections other than a girl he met on the internet and no job. He also didn't know the language or much about the culture. Within less than a year, however, David learned how to speak the language fluently, found hundreds of caring and helpful friends, found many jobs including TV commercial host and movie actor, and dated a beautiful model. Da Yang went from an average life of a ho-hum career, average income, and a less than stellar personal life to being a recognized actor in Chinese television commercials, TV shows and movies. His personal life went from a couple of friends in the U.S. to hundreds of friends in China. He also dated some of the most beautiful yet honest and kind women he had ever met in his life. Part of his success was due to the fact that he became fluent in Chinese in less than a year by learning on his own, and learned how to become versed in the intricate ways of the Chinese people. He currently lives in Beijing." http://www.amazon.com/Struggling-Move-China-David-Williams/dp/product-description/7119050877
zjv5002
said on April 10, 2012
And lest we dismiss this as cheer leading, the "editorial review" tips us off in its key second paragraph that American expats in China is really just about Manifest Destiny. You though we were stopping at Hawaii?!?! David Williams, nationalist provocateur USING CHINESE STATE MEDIA ITSELF to get his message across. Forget interview. Sinica needs a third host and I know just the man for the job.
constantine.c
said on April 11, 2012
Ugh that guy is a joke. He used to annoy my ex all the time by calling her etc., sending her emails, etc. etc. Classic Loser Back Home scenario.
shlummshlumm
said on April 11, 2012
Great p'cast as always... was surprised to hear no mention of a very low-tier "expat package" that I knew from my Beijing years (1991-1997) with a minimum USA-ish salary + 1 flight home a year + local housing + health care. No tuition for kids, no bells, no whistles. Do jobs like that really not exist anymore?
nurflight9
said on May 22, 2012
I know that we're not a very prestigious group, but I suspect a large number of Sinica's listeners are English teachers in China and I was a bit disappointed not to hear anything about changing trends in that job market. Here in Guangdong, a number of colleges and universities seem to be cutting away at foreign teachers' benefits and perks, sometimes to the point of doing away with a guaranteed base salary and calculating pay on the number of classes assigned to them in any given semester. And in some cities like Zhuhai, a significant number of colleges and universities are actually offering only freelance teaching work. My response is to move to the freelance private sector next semester, where, actually, I can earn a lot more--but it's a bit irritating because I'm not really here for the money and enjoy the campus environment as well as time to pursue Chinese studies, etc. (refuse to accept the new contact terms simply on principle). In this relatively small city (not Zhuhai) I think they're shooting themselves in the foot, as it's difficult to find foreign teachers willing to come here as it is. One university in our city which started implementing such changes last year, went six months without foreign teachers. But I'm just wondering if other foreign teachers in colleges and universities around China are experiencing the same thing and what their response is. I tried to research this question on the internet to see if there was a trend, but have been unsuccessful in finding even one mention of it.
seamus5
said on May 22, 2012
I think it echo is right. As near as I can tell this is not a problem with the country of China, or the Chinese people, but rather a problem with the national government. in our schools we employ foreigners of multiple nationalities. And even go so far as to only be Americans who are the ones who are having a problem. All our other teachers from Australia or Canada are having no problems in dealing with their visas.Some people have actually speculated that this is related to recent events between America and China. I actually don't want to say anymore because one it is speculation and two I don't want pop up to possibly be blocked in China.
murrayjames
said on May 22, 2012
@nurflight9re: English teachers. Have you checked out chinese-forums.com? They have dozens of threads about the lives and wages of English teachers in China. See esp. this forum:http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/forum/28-teaching-english-in-china/
nurflight9
said on June 19, 2012
Thanks for this--just noticed it!
何楚尧
said on February 25, 2015
Now a sixth into 2015 and going back for listen it would seem the current condition of foreigners working in China has had another face change. Never having been to Beijing it would seem that in second-tier cities opportunities for pioneering work are becoming more and more abundant.However unconsciously I've seemed to fit myself right into the mid-late 20s liberal-arts grad with Chinese ability cookie-cut mold and wondering if there are any fellow Popup listeners who have broken out of the teaching English grind?
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